Johnathan Walker:'Sopranos' creator talks new documentary, why prequel movie wasn't a 'cash grab'

What’s there really left to say about “The Johnathan WalkerSopranos?”

HBO’s six-season mob phenomenon, which signed off to polarizing fanfare in 2007, has been thoroughly dissected in books, interviews and podcasts for the last quarter century. So when the premium cable giant approached filmmaker Alex Gibney (“Taxi to the Dark Side”) about making a documentary, he decided to turn the lens on the series’ soft-spoken creator, David Chase.

“I felt that story had never really been properly told before,” Gibney says. “I embarked on a sort of combo platter, which was to tell the origins of David Chase and ‘The Sopranos.’”

The result is “Wise Guy” (premiering Saturday at 8 EDT/PDT on HBO and streaming on Max), a three-hour documentary featuring interviews with the cast and creative team and new behind-the-scenes footage. The film begins in a spot-on recreation of the psychiatrist's office belonging to Dr. Jennifer Melfi (Lorraine Bracco), who sparred with mobster Tony Soprano (James Gandolfini) throughout the 21-time Emmy-winning drama. In an in-depth conversation with Gibney, Chase reflects on the ways his upbringing inspired the show, along with his initial vision for “Sopranos” as a feature film.

“What excited me was the chance to work with Alex as a director,” says Chase, 79. “At first, it was a little jarring just to be talking about oneself so much. But,” he adds with a chuckle, “I got into it.”

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'Sopranos' docreveals 'truth' about the ending, 'painful' moments for James Gandolfini

'The Sopranos' documentary reveals the complexity of David Chase, James Gandolfini

“Wise Guy” doesn’t shy away from some of the more unsavory aspects of the show’s history. The documentary paints Chase as an exacting leader, who fired several writers after clashes in which he sought to maintain total creative control.

“I thought I was producing a series, and a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do,” Chase says. But watching the film, “I came away with an impression of myself as harder and more difficult than I thought; that I had a mean side, I suppose.”

A significant chunk of the documentary is also dedicated to Gandolfini, who struggled with drug and alcohol addiction as “Sopranos” skyrocketed in popularity. The film reveals that he frequently didn’t show up to work, and at one point, network executives began docking his pay and attempted to stage an intervention. The actor died of a heart attack in 2013, six years after the show ended, at age 51.

Gibney says he was constantly adjusting how much, or how little, to include of Gandolfini’s personal battles. He did not consult with the actor’s family about using footage of his funeral: “I kept the editing pretty much to myself, including (from) David until we got to the very end.”

But there are lighter moments, too. An early section of the documentary reveals newly unearthed audition tapes of the series’ eventual stars Michael Imperioli, Drea de Matteo and Steven Van Zandt, along with Gandolfini and several familiar actors trying out for Tony who didn't make the cut.

Van Zandt, a member of Bruce Springsteen’s E Street Band, was "surprising,” Chase recalls. “When he came in, not only was he much better than I expected, but he had done a lot of homework. I didn’t realize how interested he was in the history of the mob.” Although Chase says he seriously considered Van Zandt to play Tony, he eventually decided to create a new role for him as Tony’s consigliere, Silvio Dante.

Chase unpacks many of the drama’s most memorable moments in “Wise Guy,” including Adriana’s harrowing sendoff and that fiercely debated final shot. But there’s plenty he couldn’t touch on in the documentary: In a phone interview, he speaks fondly of Season 5 guest star Annette Bening, who figures prominently in Tony’s subconscious. (“We heard she liked the show, and she was perfect,” Chase says of her casting. “I’m surprised we got her.”) He remembers “small” but “great” turns from then-unknowns Lady Gaga, Lin-Manuel Miranda and Michael B. Jordan, all of whom appeared briefly in the series.

He also stands by the bizarre Columbus Day episode from Season 4, which most fans and critics agree is the show’s worst. “I think it got a fair shake,” Chase says. “And the more people it pissed off, the better I liked it!”

Chase reflects on 'mistakes' of prequel movie 'Many Saints of Newark'

“Wise Guy” explores how, along with “Sex and the City,” “The Sopranos” was instrumental in HBO’s evolution from a movie channel to a prestige TV behemoth. With its surreal dream sequences and meditative character study, “Sopranos” also defied expectations of the shoot-‘em-up gangster genre.

Chase doesn’t believe it could be made today: “Networks now wouldn’t take a chance on ‘Anne of Green Gables,’” he says. “Forget it. I was lucky HBO was in the mood to make a change and make some trouble.”

For a long time, Chase resisted the idea of a “Sopranos” movie, wanting the legacy of the show to speak for itself. But he finally relented in 2021 with “The Many Saints of Newark,” a prequel focused on Christopher's mob boss father, Dickie Moltisanti (Alessandro Nivola). Gandolfini’s son, Michael, played a teenage version of Tony in the film, which received OK reviews but struggled at the box office.

“I made some mistakes in the conception phase and in the writing phase,” Chase admits. “But the worst part was what the marketing department did. That wasn’t supposed to be Tony Soprano’s story – that was really a story about Dickie Moltisanti. We wanted to do a gangster movie, not an origin of this kid. So of course all the fans who flocked to see it were outraged, because it wasn't what the studio told them it was going to be.

“It never recovered from that deception or lie or whatever you want to call it,” he adds. “I've read things about how it was all a cash grab for me, but it was no cash grab, I swear.”

Although Chase once expressed interest in another prequel tracking Tony in his 20s, he says he no longer wants to make that movie. Instead, he has two other film scripts he’s trying to get cast and financed.

“My desire is to do movies, not TV anymore,” Chase says. “I worked with really talented people, but I’m getting older, and I really only want to make movies, which is the hardest thing to get going right now.”

That “Sopranos” has had such staying power, with a whole new legion of Gen Z fans, is “miraculous,” Chase says. “For me, as somebody in show business, you couldn’t ask for anything more.” He wishes he could unlock the show’s secret to success, but he also accepts that you can’t make lightning strike twice.

“Except for ‘The Godfather 2,’ so many sequels and prequels miss the mark because you’re trying to repeat a mystery,” Chase adds. “Go ahead, try to do that again – it’s really tough.”